Thursday Highlights

Good morning.

18 responses to “Thursday Highlights

  1. Paradox: most of the blogs on my feed are admittedly Christian with a right wing leaning. I have a few left leaning secular blogs I read as well. If the “fundamentalist” right wingers are supposed to be the “haters” then why is anger and hate normally found on those on the left?

    It’s not, you’re just biased. Turn on Michael Savage of Rush Limbaugh sometime, or navigate over to Free Republic for your daily dose of hate. You’ll also note that the right has been in power and doing a terrible job for almost 8 years now, so obviously the left is going to be complaining more than the right about that.

  2. JA,
    The last two examples of “hate” seen on the left that I’ve noticed was hilzoy and now from (I’m assuming the left) the filipina blogging at womyn’s ecdysis. Are you comparing them to Mr Savage. They’d be thrilled by your comparison I’m sure.

    Look I don’t listen to Mr Savage or read the “kos kids”. Hate is their “schtick” in both cases. The point is, I have never seen “hate on the street” from the right, only the left.

    Let’s try bloggers as an example. Can you find a right wing blogger, whom you’d compare in content and form with Obsidian Wings that says “I hate” any group or person? How about an Christian evangelical or fundamentalist one?

  3. You asserted that hate and anger is normally found on the left. Yet you ignore Savage on the right and call up “the filipina blogging at womyn’s ecdysis” (whatever that is) as if they were anywhere near equal in scope. It sounds like you avoid right wing hate and cherry pick left wing hate. That’s fine, it’s your blogroll but don’t ask why hate is found on the left and not the right….you’re not really looking at either.

    Can you find a right wing blogger, whom you’d compare in content and form with Obsidian Wings that says “I hate” any group or person?

    Nothing really comes to mind but Wings doesn’t strike me as very hateful on the left side either.

  4. Rush is filled with hate?

    I smell projection.

    Nancy Pelosi is right-wing now?

    What a strange color the sky must be in your world…

  5. Savage favors protectionism. I thought this was something that the Left favors?!

  6. You asserted that hate and anger is normally found on the left.

    It’s not just an assertion, it is science.

  7. Boonton,
    I’ll agree that Wings doesn’t sound particularly hateful. However, some time ago I had linked that wondering about “hate” when hilzoy had a post remarking that she (I’m quoting likely inaccurately from memory) “coiled up in a ball of hate” in response to something.

    It sounds like you avoid right wing hate and cherry pick left wing hate.

    I disagree. I avoid left and right wing hate. The question is, why can I basically completely avoid on the right, where I have far more blog entries, but fail to on the left (where what should be a completely reasonable site like wings and the one linked today) do not avoid it.

    If reasonable bloggers like Wings admit to “hate”, what I’m asking is do you ever find (Christian?) reasonable bloggers admitting the same? Conventional wisdom tars the fundamentalist (Christian) right as being hate filled. I’m suggesting at the best hate is not limited to one side of the aisle and at the worse, that conventional wisdom has it backwards.

  8. This is just ridiculous. Just because they don’t use the words “I hate” doesn’t mean people don’t hate. Listen to the tone of the immigration debate from the Republican base. They aren’t dispassionately worried about people violating immigration laws — there’s a lot of real hatred of “illegals” — and even of legal immigrants, if they’re Latin.

    The Republicans used banning gay marriage as a get out the vote technique in 2004.

    Look at all the “B. Hussein Obama” crap on the right. Look at the emails about how he’s a secret Muslim or Marxist or terrorist sympathizer, etc. There is a lot of hate behind that nonsense.

    Look at how the right talks about liberals for the love of God. The big names on the right — Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Jonah Goldberg — they write books calling liberals fascists and traitors and worse. This is not reasoned, dispassionate discourse. It’s hate.

    Now I’m not claiming the left is immune from such hatred, but I do think they limit it more to actual politicians rather than entire groups of people (like “liberals” or “gays” or “Muslims” or “Mexicans” or “illegals.” Maybe hating George Bush personally isn’t an admirable quality, but I think it’s far better than hating a bunch of people who’ve done nothing wrong (or in the case of illegal aliens, hating them disproportionate to their crimes.)

  9. JA,
    You mean like hating groups like fundamentalists?

    Take the book noted above, Mr Goldberg’s book. I challenge you to defend your notion that it is motivated by hatred.

    There is a maxim that the right views the liberal policies as misguided and the left views the right as evil (hence the smear that the right “doesn’t care about the poor” and so on). It’s because we’re evil selfish (your words) capitalists.

    However, most likely the left doesn’t hate large groups on the right as much as hold them in contempt.

    If “groups” aren’t hated, explain then the passionate rejection of Mrs Palin by the left?

  10. You mean like hating groups like fundamentalists?

    Who hates fundamentalists? Sure, we hate the way they want to force everybody else to live just like them (gay rights, abortion, prayer in schools, creationism, etc.) but I don’t think there’s anything approaching the right’s visceral hatred of liberals (and gays, and “illegals,” etc.)

    Take the book noted above, Mr Goldberg’s book. I challenge you to defend your notion that it is motivated by hatred.

    Sorry, I guess I picked a bad example. I haven’t read the book.

    There is a maxim that the right views the liberal policies as misguided and the left views the right as evil (hence the smear that the right “doesn’t care about the poor” and so on). It’s because we’re evil selfish (your words) capitalists.

    I didn’t say you were evil. I said selfishness is at the heart of Republican economics. I think the right cares in the abstract about the poor, but they too often blame the poor for their condition. Do conservatives consider liberals’ position on abortion to be just “misguided?”

    Ann Coulter is a best-selling author. There’s just no counterpart on the left.

    However, most likely the left doesn’t hate large groups on the right as much as hold them in contempt.

    That’s a different story. I see no problem with holding in contempt people who want to take away our rights to fit their bigoted religious agenda.

    If “groups” aren’t hated, explain then the passionate rejection of Mrs Palin by the left?

    Because she’s the smarmy incarnation of everything that’s wrong with the modern Republican party. She encapsulates perfectly the perfect storm found in George Bush: unwavering certainty combined with profound ignorance, but voters would like to have a beer with her.

  11. JA,

    Sure, we hate the way they want to force everybody else to live just like them (gay rights, abortion, prayer in schools, creationism, etc.)

    Pot meet kettle. Your solution, force “everybody else” to live the way you want them to. Geesh.

    Oh, so I’m not evil, just the policies I support. Got it.

    No counterpart to Ann Coulter. You can’t think of anyone using satire, irony and scorn to excoriate the “other”. Bill Mahr ring a bell?

    As to Mrs Palin, I don’t think you’ve identified the feminist reaction to her. Just your own perhaps. Which, perhaps … is a good lead-in for tonight’s political post.

  12. So let me get this straight, Obsidian Wings is hate because you think she once wrote she “coiled up in hate” when she heard something. Sigh….

  13. Boonton,
    That’s right. hilzoy is noted frequently by left wing bloggers as “one of the most thoughtful progressive/bloggers” writing. And she “hates”. I have not seen any “thoughtful right wing” bloggers ever express that sentiment.

    I think that’s signiificant … but of what I’m not sure. But it is a data point in the quest to try to understand the “other” or the divide between right and left in this country.

  14. Pot meet kettle. Your solution, force “everybody else” to live the way you want them to. Geesh.

    That’s not true. I’m not trying to force anybody to do anything. I’m not trying to force people to marry gay people. I’m not trying to force people to have abortions. Etc. It’s your side that wants to do the forcing — forcing other people to bear children, forcing other people to remain single, preventing other people from adopting children, etc.

    Oh, so I’m not evil, just the policies I support. Got it.

    The left doesn’t tend to think in absolute terms about evil.

    Does it appear to you that I hate you? I do not. I’d be really happy to meet you if we ever happened to cross paths.

    Bill Maher

    I don’t see him in the same ballpark, nastiness- and hatred-wise. But I’m probably less sensitive to insults of your side as you would be mine.

    As to Mrs Palin, I don’t think you’ve identified the feminist reaction to her. Just your own perhaps. Which, perhaps … is a good lead-in for tonight’s political post.

    I didn’t know you wanted an explanation for the feminist reaction to her. That much is obvious. She’s a finger in the eye to all the Hillary voters. She’s on the wrong side of almost every issue for a large majority of women, but because she has a vagina, they were supposed to vote for her. McCain seemed to be banking on the thought that Hillary supporters are complete morons. I’d be outraged, too.

  15. JA,
    Of course you are “forcing them” to do things. Just not exactly the same things you accusing them of forcing you to do, except that they’re not forcing you to do anything either. The essential problem is that too many people want to universalize and spread their outlook on everyone. This is just one of the reasons we need to localize. That way everyone can be happy. :)

    On a side note, my mother who is a life-long democrat was a Hillary supporter, now is supporting McCain and likes Mrs Palin.

    McCain, in my view, just like Obama didn’t select his VP in any consideration for votes from “the other side” but to cement his base. That is, Mrs Palin wasn’t selected to woo Clinton voters or the centrists, but to appeal to the conservative base … which he did.

  16. Mark:

    Other than paying taxes, I’m not trying to force anybody to do anything. Just live and let live is all I ask. Your side is trying to prevent other people from getting married and adopting and having abortions.

    If “pro-choice” meant “everybody must have an abortion,” then it would be equivalent. If Dems were trying to replace straight marriage with gay-only marriage, that would be equivalent. But we’re not.

    The only rights some Democrats want to take away more than Republicans are gun rights, and I disagree with them on that.

  17. JA,
    Public Liberty. I’ve discussed it more than once. The democrats want force their vision of public liberty on everyone uniformly. The pretense that the Democrats aren’t forcing anything is a semantic fiction.

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